I wrote this in another thread. I thought it would make a good topic for comments.

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I sometimes think music is going to eventually be made by just one single unit where your current pop icon vocalist just presses a button when he's ready to release another (mindless) song and the machine spits it out. Kind of like a "password" software program where, after you set it up, it coughs up a different combination of "passwords" with each go! Or like Band in a Box....you give it a set of chords and it gives you back a melody while you mow the lawn.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more plausible it sounds in this age where people just take what's handed to them and don't question the quality or the integrity of what they're getting. Kind of like our latest gift to mankind...double-digit inflation! Just put it on someone's plate and they'll eat it no matter how toxic!

I shudder to think that's where music production and entertainment will eventually end up!

Mark

Hope there are no Yanni fans here, but the first thing that popped into my mind is.....nah, I better not say it.

...and arranger keyboards help this situation how?

chas

you ASKED for comments.

I truly believe that if all 'talent-assist' devices ie. arranger kb's, samplers, synths, etc. were suddenly banned, the quality of music, musicianship, music education, and MOSTLY, musical entertainment, would improve dramatically (as would the joy of PLAYING). JMO, of course.

You ain't just "whistlin' Dixie" with your remarks, Chas. Unfortunately, there's no "putting the toothpaste back into the tube!" It's out of the tube now and making an ugly mess all over the bathroom sink, floor, mirror, etc!

BTW....you forgot to add the latest gadget now entering the "Gadget Hall of Fame" to your "should be banned" list:

...."vocal pitch correctors" so that now even pregnant frogs can sound like Renee Fleming and enter and finish in the finals of some TV talent show!

Hey, don't knock 'vocal pitch correctors'.....that's what convinced us that Cher could sing .

I guess auto-accompaniment first reared it's ugly head in the 'home' organ and that was fine, as long as we kept it confined to a 500lb wooden console that could only be moved to a public venue by a moving company. If 'Uncle Henry's' neighbors could tolerate it and the family was willing to grit their teeth and bear it at family gatherings, so be it. But then they went and downsized the darn things, invented Rock-n-Roller carts, added mic inputs with vocal processors, and voila', the OMB was re-invented and became the keyboard equivalent of the three-chord teenage Rock guitar player. The difference is, SOME of the guitar players learned a few more chords; most of the arranger players didn't.

So, do I hate Arranger KB's? Absolutely not. They're fun and I own 3 of them. Do I think they are legitimate musical instruments (in the classical sense of the word), NO. Should they be banned from use in professional venues? From an economic (and personal liberty) point of view, NO; from a 'betterment of society' point of view, YES.

Let's face it, what drives the sale of Arranger keyboards and why are they sold mainly to old men who, after 50 years of practice, still can't play even one song on a piano at a professional level? Why do the truly creative (read 'young') and talented musicians today avoid them like the plague? Why is it that music store clerks don't know anything about them and 'big box' stores refuse to carry them for display? We have to face the fact that Arranger players are a very small minority; a VERY defensive one, but still a very small minority. Think about what we ask for in new instruments; better vocal processors, built-in MP3 and SMF players, lyric displays, chord sequencers, song-specific styles, and the list goes on.....anything that makes it easier for us to NOT PLAY.

We ridicule Jazz because it's difficult to play and demands more of the listener. We've gotten to prefer McDonalds to a fine restaurant. My grandkids LOVE these microwavable 'Mac-n-cheese' cups where you add some water, pour in some kind of powdered artificial 'cheese' mix, and stir, but they won't touch a single bite out of a great mac and cheese casserole prepared from scratch with fresh ingredients and baked lovingly in a real oven. I have to quickly remember that they're my own grandchildren to keep from strangling them .

HOWEVER, this is still a (relatively) free country, so if triggering someone else's STYLES on an arranger kb is your idea of how good music is created, so be it.

Being a 'tech geek', I still enjoy playing around with my arrangers, but less and less these days. Playing and rehearsing on a frequent basis keeps me aware of the huge differences between playing arranger kb and playing live with musicians. A place for each, I suppose, but definitely not the same. Will I buy another arranger in the future? Possibly. But not for the sake of providing inspiration; I get inspired by listening to the 'old masters' playing great music.

chas

i did not know that being a minority accounted for anything. I am a minority in so many ways other than as an arranger playing musician but its just water off a ducks back for me. i will keep on making good music regardless.

I appreciate everything that Chas has said in terms of how he sees arrangers in terms of the classic view of music making but as always , the caricature of a talentless old man gets pulled out to illustrate a point all the time . Why always pull out lowest form or example of musicianship to illustrate the use of aranger keyboards ? Thats just so tunnel visoned. i can gaurantee you that the majority of keyboards that have been sold in the world ,whether aranger or otherwise are played by people with little more than a basic understanding a level of chords and melody and less than that in skill level.

And for most thats exactly where they stay.

In fact i would bet that for almost any instrumnet of any category ,you will find that most owners progress little further than the most basic understanding of simple chords and melodies . I would go further and say that most pianos (at least in the UK ) that are privately owned serve more purpose as a side table than as a musical instrument !

so just how would society be better if there were less arranger keyboards in the world ? Does anyone believe that if we got rid of arrangers there would be an increase of keyboard/piano players or guitar players or other forms of musician ? almost certainly there would in fact be less musicians in the world however you wish to grade them . that to me would be a terrible terrible thing.

Chas is right that TOPL Arrangers are bought by and large by old wealthy men but this is because they can afford them !! However the budget instruments are almost certainly purchased by parents for their children and grand childremn who cant afford or dont have the space for a full sized weighted keys piano. I teach keyboard and i know that most children graduate to piano from affordable arranger keyboards.All the childrens schools that i have ever been to that teach music at all , start on a keyboard , typically arranger style .

If these were not available with their easy play functions there would in fact be less musicians that progress to a full piano in the world.

What i see time and time again is the focus on the easy play functions and the complete ommission of the sophisticated music tool that most TOTL arrangers have become. The caricature that keeps being wheeled out as an example of an arranger player (even if accurate) does not define the legitimate musical tool that an arranger is.

seeing the musician ship of someone like Marco Parisi, Peter Baartmans, Arnauld Delauney , Martin Harris just illustrates the point that it is the musician that defines the musical instrument and validates it as a legitimate music making tool and not the instrumnet itself.

Ha! Great post, Chas.

I distinctly remembering one of the more curmudgeonly of the older bunch (meaning around my age of 64) I jam with, referring to the arranger keyboard as the "blow-up doll" or "inflatable Love Companion" of the keyboard world.

Of course, he was also of the opinion that any amp that wasn't a vintage Fender Twin, a guitar that didn't have Stratocaster on the headstock, or an organ without the name HAMMOND between the upper and lower decks, should be relegated to pawn shops and city dumps.

I must say, however, that I really enjoy using my arranger (a Tyros4), and although I live alone at present, I also haven't found the need for "inflatable toys", unless you want to count the Yellow Rubber Ducky tucked away on the rim of my bathtub...you know, the one that Ernie, of Bert and Ernie (Sesame Street fame) always sings about "Rubber Ducky, you're the one...you make bath time so much fun".

Luckily for me, I have managed to remain in with a group of semi-retired/retired musicians that like to jam a few times a month and, except for Mr. Curmudgeon above, are quite happy (and perhaps a tad more open-minded) to play along with the auto accompaniments as long as it doesn't become a habit and the chord progressions aren't insulting.

I also play a really well kept B-3/Leslie 122, which my Tyros4 usually sits on top of...I often use the latter for Rhodes and other sounds.

I still regard my Tyros4 as a "tool". I feel, like any other electronic instrument or keyboard, it really depends on the skill and creativity of the player to make the most of it.

For my use, an arranger is both a "live" performance, and a recording instrument (most arrangers are basically self contained studios).

You can use the arranger as an educational tool, giving yourself access to the inner workings of a multitude of styles and genres, which will certainly increase your value and longevity as a working musician.

In music, especially nowadays, the more versatile you are, the more you work and a good professional arranger keyboard can keep you in the game.

For composers who have to produce music quickly in a given style that they may not be familiar with, an arranger can be the difference between making the deadline or losing the gig, and, actually, in most cases, people who hire composers don't care how you come up with the music, as long as you do.

Because of this, arrangers are showing up in the studios where their tracks are directly recorded from the arranger and put on CD for release. Of course, that makes sense, since the styles and performances are created and performed by world-class musicians.

Plus, you can edit styles to further personalize your music.

So, if you will, I can see both sides of the situation, but, for now, the advantages of having and using an arranger far outweigh those from not having it.

Again, great post, Chas...very thought provoking.

Ian

Good posts guys. Chas is just a rich old man too, but makes some good points.
Spalding kept me from writing exactly what I was thinking!
One thought though (of course), it's easy to assume that arranger players started as piano players and are using it for a substitute. That's not true in many cases. I started as a trumpet player, found there was not much market for those, even though I was really good (he says modestly). So I got a bass and started playing for parties after about a week. Learned enough guitar to know I wasn't ever going to be James Burton, bought an organ because my band back home needed an organ player.
Started doing singles because they paid more. Graduated through several organs as the auto-accomp. got better and better. Along about here I quit my "real" job.
THEN I discovered there was a world outside of organs, dollies, leslies and big vans to haul them in. Arrangers were invented.
Thank you Lord, for that, because I haven't had to work hard since!
To make the point, I'm an ARRANGER player, not a piano player. I don't like piano keys, I don't play left-hand arpeggios, I'm lousy at the sustain pedal. But I can sit down and entertain an audience for four hours, several nights a week, and never play the same song twice!
Yes the arranger does the background, but if you play with a band, the band does the background. Without me telling it what to do, the arranger just sets there. If you want it to do something great, you must tell it the right chords, put in the right riffs, put in variations, breaks, fill-ins for variety, play the right rides--that's where the PLAYING comes in.
Also, it doesn't bother me if another old man sits down and plays three-chord songs with one finger. He can't get my job, but he can sure have fun "playing".
Also, I've heard bad singers trying to use pitch correction, and they still sounded bad. Not saying you can't do it in a high-end studio or even with the right computer program, but I've never heard it done on the bandstand.
I TOLD you I didn't have much to add.